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hinduism
September 2009 
How the body, mind and soul are related
Posted on Mar 2nd, 2009
by 
Eli
Eli
Hindu Vedantic thoughts have repeatedly stated that the soul is pure, it is always free and immortal. The great Adi Shankaracharya in his immortal creation "Atma Shatakam" summarized this non-dualistic philosophy saying "Chidananda Rupa Shivoham Shivoham" (I am indeed, That eternal knowing and bliss, Shiva, love and pure consciousness).
Yet, the same Hindu scriptures also speak of the fact that the soul keeps taking rebirths in various life forms (as embodied soul), not only on planet earth but also on other planets too, depending on the laws of karma.
What is this process? How do the mind, the thinking process, and the desires of the living form affect this cycle?
In this post it is my humble attempt to present a few verses from Srimad Bhagavatam which discuss this very important question. These verses explain how our thinking, desires, actions, and the body are inter-related. These verses also throw light on how and why the pure immortal soul takes up a physical form, and why it takes a specific physical form (not just human form...).
Readers who are already familiar with the verses of Bhagwad Gita would find it interesting to note that much of what has been stated in the following verses of ?r?mad Bh?gavatam can also be found in Bhagwad Gita.
Note :
Srrmad Bhagavatam (also known as Srimad Bhagavata, Bhagavatam, Bhagavata Purana or Bhagwat) is an authoritative exposition of Vedic knowledge. It covers subjects like the nature of the self, the origin of the universe, what is life, what is a human being's role in life, what is meant by cycle of birth and death, what is the relation between God and man, etc. It contains tales related to various incarnations of Lord Vishnu and mainly deals with the life and work of Lord Krishna.
One must not confuse Srimad Bhagavatam with Srimad Bh?gavat Gita. While Gita is a summary of the entire Vedantic Knowledge compressed in just eighteen chapters totalling only 700 verses, Srimad Bhagavatam is a massive work comprising of 12 sections called "Skandhas"(cantos), and a total of 18000 verses.
1. mrityur janmavatam vira dehena saha jayate
adya vabda-satante va mrityur vai praninam dhruvah
(Srimad Bhagavatam 10.1.38)
One who takes birth is sure to die, for death is born with the body. Someone may die today and someone may die or after hundreds of years, but it is sure that every living entity will die.
2. dehe pañcatvam apanne dehi karmanugo 'vasah
dehantaram anuprapya praktanam tyajate vapuh
(Srimad Bhagavatam 10.1.39)
When the present body dies and is reduced to five elements (earth, water, fire, air and ether) the indweller of the body (the embodied soul), automatically takes another physical body depending on his own karma.
3. vrajams tisthan padaikena yathaivaikena gacchati
́ yathā tṛṇa-jalaukaivam dehī karma-gatiḿ gataḥ
(Srimad Bhagavatam 10.1.40)
Just as a person walking rests one foot on the ground and then lifts the other foot, just as a catterpiller transfers itself to one leaf and then gives up the previous one, in the same way the living entity (the embodied soul) undergoing the karmic consequence takes shelter of another body and gives up the one he had before.
4. yenaiv?rabhate karma tenaiv?mutra tat pum?n
bhu?kte hy avyavadh?nena li?gena manas? svayam
(?r?mad Bh?gavatam 4.29.60)
The embodied soul physically acts in a gross body in this life. However, this physical body is guided to action by a subtle body which is composed of mind, intelligence and ego. After the gross body is lost, the subtle body is still there to enjoy or suffer.
5. ?ay?nam imam utsr?jya ?vasantam? purus?o yath?
karm?tmany ?hitam? bhu?kte t?dr??enetaren?a v?
(?r?mad Bh?gavatam 4.29.61)
Just as while dreaming, the living entity gives up the actual physical body and acts in another body (in dream), similarly the activities of his mind and intelligence in the present body will determine what will happen to the embodied soul after giving up this gross material body (after death). The living entity may enter either an animal body on one extreme or a demigod's body on the other extreme, either on this planet or on another planet to enjoy the results of the actions of his past life.
6. yato yato dh?vati daiva-coditam? mano vik?r?tmakam ?pa pañcasu
gun?es?u m?y?-rocites?u dehy asau prapadyam?nah? saha tena j?yate
(?r?mad Bh?gavatam 10.1.42)
At the time of death, according to the thinking, feeling and desires of the mind, one receives a particular body in the next cycle (the mind, not being liberated, becomes attached to the material qualities).
7. n?nam? pramattah? kurute vikarma yad indriya-pr?taya ?pr?n?oti
na s?dhu manye yata ?tmano 'yam asann api kle?ada ?sa dehah?
(?r?mad Bh?gavatam 5.5.4)
When a person considers sensual gratification as the aim of life, he madly runs after materialistic living and engages in all kinds of forbidden activities. He is unaware that due to his past misdeeds he has already received a body which, although temporary, is the cause of his misery. In reality, the pure immortal soul should not have taken on a material body, but he has been awarded the material body for sense gratification. Therefore, an intelligent man tshould not involve himself again in the activities of sense gratification by which he perpetually gets material bodies one after another, thus moving away from liberation.
8. mamaite manas? yad yad as?v aham iti bruvan
gr?hn??y?t tat pum?n r?ddham? karma yena punar bhavah
(?r?mad Bh?gavatam 4.29.62)
The embodied soul labors under the bodily concept of "I" and "My". "I am this, I am that. My duty is this, I shall do that, etc. etc." These are all mental impressions, in reality all these activities are temporary. However this load is carried forward as further karma and the soul gets another chance to execute all his mental images in another physical body.
9. n?nubh?tam? kva c?nena dehen?dr?s?t?am a?rutam
kad?cid upalabhyeta yad r?pam? y?dr?g ?tmani
ten?sya t?dr??am? r?jan li?gino deha-sambhavam
?raddhatsv?nanubh?to 'rtho na manah? spras?t?um arhati
(?r?mad Bh?gavatam 4.29.64-65)
Sometimes we suddenly experience something that was never experienced in the present body by sight or hearing. Sometimes we see such things suddenly in dreams. To a living being, this is the proof of life produced in a previous body, because not a single thing is able to manifest in the mind which hasn't been tried, experienced or understood before.
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This is very interesting, Eli, and relates beautifully to a number of discussions we’ve had recently on the God Pod. Would you like to link it, for example to the God Particle discussion? Love to you!
Nicole, you are most welcome to link this to any thread(s), even copy paste the whole blog, if you feel that is a better option. I hope my humble efforts help … Thank you for being the first to comment. Love you
All these days i was trying clear my email arrears and I have just finished.
In the profile page I just saw your writing. In fact I have subscribed to your blogs.
Now I went through all these. I too tried to bring the Bhagavatham here, but all the collections are in the computer awaiting repairs.
About the author of these both works becomes Veda Vyasa. Vyasa means Guru and some people consider that there had been several Vyasas at different periods.
We need not worry about that. Bhagavatham at the start says that it is a gist of all the scriptures of Hinduism.
I will continue to comment later on other items.
Wonderful to read…thank you.
Really interesting how the truths were expounded in different sources. Thank you for bringing this here, Eli.
Sanmugan, I would be eagerly waiting for your other computer to be repaired, so you could add valuable comments from Bhagwatam here, or perhaps start a thread on Bhagwatam linking this blog to the thread. Thanks for visiting.
Helen, pleasee accept my most humble gratitude for leaving your heartprints.
Meenakshi, I have a dream. I wish someone would compile the verses/sayings from all the different sources from ALL RELIGIONS about the SAME subject. Truth is same, and it would be an enlightening experience for all to see how everyone speaks the same truth.
Thank you very much for visiting and leaving your heartprint.
Adi sankaraachcharya is a Monist. Where as Bhakti Vedhantha Prabu is a Dualist like Madvachcharya and Ramanujachcharya.So it will be a hard job for you to compare them.
As mentioned earlier Bhagavan Vyasa is the author for both works. He and Lord Krishna are seems to be the founders of our present Hindu Religious system. There had been so many works and deities but they tried their best to bring them all together thro collecting all of them together. Vedas and Bhagavad Gita were the starting point. Later Bagawatham too collected into one. It says This works was described to a King ‘Parikshithu’after he killed all the ‘Nagas’ and the son of Sage Vyasa “Suka’who was considered parrot faced.Everything is fully described in Bhagawatha, and only Vaishnavites prefer read it and not the others.
Bhagavad Gita described all the yogas and included Bakthi Yoga for the first time as it was not mentioned in the earlier works fully but except in the Naradha Bakthi Sutra.
Now you are mentioning about: ‘Body, mind and soul’. Soul is the original. According to Ramana Maharishi while the soul is affected by the attachments it becomes the mind.Otherwise it will remain as the original Soul. So both become same. we have created words to describe the diiferent attitiudes as, ‘Mind, (Manas), Buddhi ( knowledge), siddha( more better state), Ahankara( I am). Body is the reason for all this states.Because it is trying to control us. It does everything on its own. We also don’t worry about it. It does the breathing, blood supply, brain thinking and all those. When we become aware of ourselves only, we try to control our breathing by Pranayama and all similar activities. When we take control of our own body, everything comes under our own control. even hunger, thirsty, and other desires could be controlled by us. Then there will be no tension, worries, diseses, ailments etc.
all the books never tell these direct. Hatha Yoga paractise too aimed at this. It is not told openly. Normally most people fear to take control of the body. They listen to the body and act according to the guidance of the five senses including eating.
so your ‘Body, mind and soul’ are now coming onto as one.
I saw your blog last night after 11Pm. That is why I was unable to write fully.Adi sankaraachcharya is a Monist. Where as Bhakti Vedhantha Prabu is a Dualist like Madvachcharya and Ramanujachcharya.So it will be a hard job for you to compare them.
As mentioned earlier Bhagavan Vyasa is the author for both works. He and lord Krishna are seems to be the founders of our present Hindu Religious system. There had been so many works and deities but they tried their best to bring them all together thro collecting all of them together. Vedas and Bhagavad Gita were the starting point. Later Bagawatham too collected into one. It says This works was described to a King ‘Parikshithu’after he killed all the ‘Nagas’ and the son of Sage Vyasa “Suka’who was considered parrot faced.Everything is fully described in Bhagawatha, and only Vaishnavites prefer read it and not the others.
Bhagavad Gita described all the yogas and included Bakthi Yoga for the first time as it was not mentioned in the earlier works fully but except in the Naradha Bakthi Sutra.
Now you are mentioning about: ‘Body, mind and soul’. Soul is the original. According to Ramana Maharishi while the soul is affected by the attachments it becomes the mind.Otherwise it will remain as the original Soul. So both become same. we have created words to describe the diiferent attitiudes as, ‘Mind, (Manas), Buddhi ( knowledge), siddha( more better state), Ahankara( I am). Body is the reason for all this states.Because it is trying to control us. It does everything on its own. We also don’t worry about it. It does the breathing, blood supply, brain thinking and all those. When we become aware of ourselves only, we try to control our breathing by Pranayama and all similar activities. When we take control of our own body, everything comes under our own control. even hunger, thirsty, and other desires could be controlled by us. Then there wil be no tension, worries, diseses, ailments etc.
All the books never tell these direct. Hatha Yoga paractise too aimed at this. It is not told openly. Normally most people fear to take control of the body. They listen to the body and act according to the guidance of the five senses including eating.
so your ‘Body, mind and soul’ are now coming onto as one.
I saw your blog last night after 11Pm. That is why I was unable to write fully.
Bhagavadham thread is already there with only a few postings.
http://groups.gaia.com/ancients_wisdom/discussions/view/308147
This is the link to the ’ Bhagavadham ’ thread
All your passages are very explicate.
Thank you Eli, for posting this most gracious blog.
Namaste
Thank you for the link to Bhagvatham thread. I am so very thankful to you for elaborating on your earlier comments and thus enriching this blog.
You do have a point that it might be hard to reconcile the never ending intellectual dual between the monists and the dualists. But that is only at the intellectual level. The essential truth at the experiential level remains same irrespective of what thoughts one follows. Afterall spiritual realization of the truth is purely experiential, beyond intellect and beyond words.
It seems that Gaia has duplicated some part of your comments when you posted, but I find no way to edit your comments to eliminate the duplicate sentences.
mum, thank you very much for appreciation.. please accept my most humble namaskaram
thank you so much, Eli. I added the link and part of your blog to the God Particle discussion. Hugs!
Eli, I get a mailer from OneTruth” <onetruth1111@yahoo.com> which gives 3-4 quotes almost daily on one topic, from different sources. It is not all from ancient texts, but it is the closest that I have found to what you are seeking.
I wonder if we’ll find something from Theosophical sources. I’ll find out and let you know.
…thank you so much Eli for your awe-inspiring article….you are really a very unique & rare soul and ‘am humbly proud to be associated with you in your journey thro’ Gaia !! …as a co-traveller , with gaint steps, you are at an incredibly insurmountable , invisible distance ahead of me …and the funny part is- i am daring the impossible…to catch up with you with my trembling baby steps !!
with lots of love ,
-jagadish
Meenakshi, may I suggest that you initiate a co-creative project (perhaps in the form of a discussion thread .. or a new pod..or whatever other way your think appropriate). I will join but only withing my limitations (which you already know). There are several wondeful gaians who could really join in and make this dream a reality.
Brother Jagdish, your high praise leaves me most humbled and blushing. I really don’t deserve such words, I am only trying to share whatever little I can…
I have missed your comments, thank you very much for dropping in and leaving your heartprints
Hello Eli, you are a wonder few and far between my friend are those such as yourself Eli, it must be that smile.
=}
Re: Dancing with siva
sanmugan said Feb 24, 6:58 AM:Are Monism and Dualism Reconcilable?
Monists, from their mountaintop perspective, perceive a one reality in all things. Dualists, from the foothills, see God, souls and world as eternally separate. Monistic theism is the perfect reconciliation of these two views. Aum. Visualize a mountain and the path leading to its icy summit. As the climber traverses the lower ranges, he sees the meadows, the passes, the giant boulders. This we can liken to dualism, the natural, theistic state where God and man are different. Reaching the summit, the climber sees that the many parts are actually a one mountain. This realization is likened to pure monism. Unfortunately, many monists, reaching the summit, teach a denial of the foothills they themselves climbed on the way to their monistic platform. However, by going a little higher, lifting the kundalini into the space above the mountain’s peak, the entire Truth is known. The bottom and the top are viewed as a one whole, just as theism and monism are accepted by the awakened soul. Monistic theism, Advaita Ishvaravada, reconciles the dichotomy of being and becoming, the apparent contradiction of God’s eternality and temporal activity, the confusion of good and evil, the impasse of one and two. The Vedas affirm, “He who knows this becomes a knower of the One and of duality, he who has attained to the oneness of the One, to the self-same nature.” Aum Namah Sivaya. - Sathguru Sivaya Subramuniya Swami
Hello “Just me”, welcome and a deep bow
I am extremely thankful Sanmugan. Your valuable additions truly enrich me.
BTW, I have posted a new entry to the Bhagwatham thread with the hope that this wonderful thread you have created would attract many more posts and readers.
nice this kinda explains my dreams of a past life….so did i come back as another human cuz i didnt finish a mission?
Hi Emile, Yes, you are right, according to the Hindu thoughts karma (action), as long as is attached to Kama (desires for result), would keep us bound to the cycle of birth-death-rebirth.
Eli, thank you for this beautiful blog! I studied the Srimad Bhagavatam for years. I recall back then it was difficult for me to find it….and at first I found it for $2,000…..but I delayed as Amazon found the books for $500….so I went for it. My husband laughed at me as three boxes of books arrived one day and I heavily dropped them on the table….he said, “A little light reading?” Oh, but after I read the first book, I would have paid $2,000 for only one of the books, much less the whole series! The value cannot be placed. The Holy Bible was special to me because of the love Jesus reflected, this great love of God…and this feeling too was overwhelming in Srimad…Oh, the LOVE…the devotion…the practice, wisdom, the stories!!!!! I was high all the time….I gave birth to a beautiful boy at this time and called him ‘My Lord’ for three weeks before calling his given name…he even looks like Lord Krsna!!!!
Thank you so much, Eli!!!!
I am speechless !!!! Thank you is an overused word, so…….
I offer my deepest love and a very warm HUG !!!!
May I request you to post some of your own favourites from Bhagwatam here please…
Attainment! I forgot to mention… You can find another post HERE from Bhagvatam on The cycle of creation-birth-death-rebirth-cosmic annihilation as described in S’rîmad Bhâgavatam
I’m confused!
What exactly do you mean, Meenakshi, by, “There isn’t any need for discussion to”?
I always thought that a persons need of placing a topic, on the lounge, has a need for discussion of, and that it should open as much and of such, like a blossom in bloom, that needs a sunlight (voice of opinion) or the butterfly that bounces from here and there to nourish from all that it flutters to and from….or maybe I have a shoe in my mouth..lol.
I am indeed confused as to your statement….no offense, but what is the lounge exactly all about?
“V”
Meenakshi, I think it could be a separate “conversation room” in your group The Power of Light.
A separate room with perhaps a meaningful name, such as “One Light, Many Windows”.
The room description could explain the purpose with some such words like “In this room we attempt to compile the verses/sayings from all the different sources from ALL RELIGIONS about the SAME subject because we believe that TRUTH is same….”
Give it a thought please…
Mum, I understand your confusion.
Actually, what Meenakshi said was in context of my earlier suggestion in this thread.
I had said earlier:
“Meenakshi, I have a dream. I wish someone would compile the verses/sayings from all the different sources from ALL RELIGIONS about the SAME subject. Truth is same, and it would be an enlightening experience for all to see how everyone speaks the same truth.”
and in another message I suggested :
“Meenakshi, may I suggest that you initiate a co-creative project (perhaps in the form of a discussion thread .. or a new pod..or whatever other way your think appropriate). I will join but only within my limitations (which you already know). There are several wondeful gaians who could really join in and make this dream a reality.”
In context of these two, the basic idea of such a “conversation” group/room is COMPILATION …. Same TRUTH - Different Windows… Different faiths … speaking the same essence…
That is why Meenakshi said ” no need for discussion” (only compilation through contribution).
Meenakshi, I am open to everything, as long as there is sensible moderation to keep it focussed on the basic idea. Moreover, since it would necessarily be a co-creative venture, how it would develop would depend on other contributors too.
There are several possible groups, Sanmugan’s, yours, We are One, World Heritage, God pod, and maybe some others too. Personally, I think the criterion should be a group in which .. (a) like minded poeple are already participating, and (b) more number of people are participating, so that it reaches more people.
I leave the decision to you.
Yes Sanmugan, this would necessarily be a co-creative venture, and perhaps would take a long time to develop into a real treasure-house. I am tempted to call it “An encyclopaedia of Human Wisdom” …
It is a dream project, and we need like minded people having authentic knowledge of scripture(s) who are willing to contribute.
The world has witness much violence and arguments in the name of religion. We would be looking for the similarities, not the differences….
Because Truth is simple, and truth is SAME.
This is the reason that the proposed project would require a very sensible moderation too.
All saying the same thing with different words. I agree but here is the kicker.
It’s because you seek agreement. You find what you seek. I am not knocking this because I also seek agreement. In that simple statement all is revealed.
You can exchange the word agreement with a dozen other words that mean the same thing //
“There is no need of an answer for there is no problem. The answer to every question you can conceive is within you, for you are both the creator and perceiver of all your experience.”
It’s all in the eyes of the beholder… this world is what we make it. So this is a wonderful idea in my perception because you will find what you seek.
Eli,
Thank you for inviting me here to comment. I have not read any of the other comments yet, just your blog proper. Mostly, I find myself shaking my head “yes” in agreement.
I find a bit of exception, or perhaps denial, within myself at the concept that material form is somehow negative - ”an intelligent man should not involve himself again in the activities … by which he perpetually gets material bodies one after another, thus moving away from liberation.”
I think this concept that there is something “wrong” with physical life is one I find in some philosophies that I do not resonate personally with. I have already requested for myself a future life in this wilderness I now live in. I do not find incarnation to be a negative experience from which I wish to be liberated but can understand why many people would feel that way.
I have seen examples of your other concepts here, in my “sense” of my in-laws afterlife.
[1] My FIL healed the “damage” that his illness had done at the end of his life, to his long and loving relationship with my MIL, coming to her in dreams. This was one of the most beautiful examples of unconditional love I had ever witnessed. His dying process had also been one of the most perfect - in intent, in gentleness, in the unfolding and contemplation thereof, that I had ever been priviledged to witness. There also seemed to be indications that he continued on in the household for some time after his death in a subtle body form. I remember the estactic freedom and joy I felt from him on the morning of his death.
[2] My MILs death was more torturous and painful, did not seem intended but rather a battle that was rather quickly lost. I did not sense her spirit lingering in the household immediately after death but felt she quickly left to rejoin the “spirit” of my FIL and her sisters and friends who departed before her. I did receive messages from her through others more attuned to that sort of thing. I may have felt myself pass through her energy field once in her home during the weeks since she died. It made me feel a bit suddenly dizzy, a feeling I intuited as being related to her presence and which I quickly recovered from. She always said she wanted to “come back” as a Turkey Vulture and just last weekend we saw a single Turkey Vulture soaring over the creek next to our home and told our kids “That’s Grandma”.
Those are the thoughts that come to me, the ways in which I am able to relate to what you have written here.
Wishing you always, only the best, my friend -
Deb
Deb, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. You have immensely enriched this discussion by sharing your own experiences.
Thanks Deb, you have rightly pointed out that it is lifetime work, and not one, but several… that is why I suggested to you all that it would be a co-creative effort.
I am hoping that someone would bell the cat (I can’t because of severe limitations). We would need at least three or four lovely Gaians who would be posting from different scriptures, it is not likely that one person would be master of scriptures from several faiths.
I also like the thought that ”there are 2 needs here - [1] one for pure compilation that references Source and [2] another that could be devoted to personal discussion and/or experiences that illustrate”.
Meenakshi, Nicole, Sanmugan…. are you listening?
Sanmugan, both Meenakshi and Nicole are experienced. Perhaps they will immediately help you. You could write mails to them for all kinds of guidances. Also, as I said, it would be sensible to wait till we have a few others from different religious beliefs, and who are willing to post. In this area too, I suggest you to please discuss with Deb, Nicole, and Meenakshi.