Hinduism - A Way of Life

Hi Eli, this is offered with respect and love for you and an open mind  This blog says much about suffering and our desires, even not wanting to be reincarnated again is a desire, is it not ? How does hinduism answer this riddle of desire? 
Why were we created with feelings if we are to restrict, control them?  Love is a feeling, are we to restrict it?  Or expand it to include All?  As we expand love we do act more selflessly for the benefit of All.  Personally I believe that universal consciousnes is Love, I am still learning, but  what better route home than through expanding our love - until it includes absolutely All ?

Very interesting, Eli! So is Zephyrs questions to which I would love to hear your explanation.
I believe in re-incarnation as well - with the difference of complete choice over the desicion to come back in human or any other physical form - as well as the choice of becoming a guide - such as a spirit guide, or an angel. I do also believe that we are hear to feel to the fullest, as our emotions create our experience and shape the experiences of others - to me that is how conflicts turn into wars, or selfishness into disasters.
That said, I love Zephyrs last sentence - the better route home, than through expanding our love - until it includes absolutly All.
I am not sure that desires are a bad thing, the desire to connect for example, the desire to share knowledge, and the desire to bring forth beauty through the creation of art - these to me are desires I can not let go off, they are too much a part of who I am, who I decided to be.
Great blog, love your detailed explanations of Hinduism!

Blessed be.

- giggles - this could turn into a discussion of labeling onces feelings, then classifying them as necessary or appropriate in the spiritual realm.
I see your point, Eli, and yes the harmony you speak about that a Yogi looks for is familiar to me. It is interesting how I find facets of my faith within other faiths, just another aspect and way of seeing the Oneness or Unity of All.

Now I can also see how one's desire can turn - but that is where willpower comes in, control of oneself, that is so very possible, through intensive spiritual practices. But then again, what I see, the effort that requires on the level of our spiritual paths we talk about, and you talk about, takes discipline and effort that I see lacking in times away from Gaia. Therefore I feel at times closer connected with souls such as you, then the ones I meet on a day to day basis.
Like  you called your blog a way of life, it is - any true spiritual path is - (I mean with true is practiced wholeheartedly, the way is detail). I am looking forward to more practical discussions on your subjects.
It kind of reminds me when I studied Scientology for a while, and it's practical aspects - I just wish more spiritual path would come with their detailed describtion on practical life. That activness is one of the many areas that drew me to my faith.

Blessed be.

Claudia

Eli, thank you for this blog, touching upon the basic principes in what is called “hinduism”. I wonder, Zephyr; if we can take the question of desire and suffering from the point of suffering and not from the point of desire.

In other words, if we are suffering; we move to the unfulfilled desire that is causing the suffering.
Desires such as the one for no re-incarnation would be a problem only at the point when we are near moksha [liberation].
Now Love…you're right, Phoenix; in that we could go into whether that is a state of being or a feeling or a desire…or all three. In which case, till we can reach the state of being; we have to keep removing the desire aspect of love…

Some stray thoughts that came to me. Great job, Eli…

Co-existing in love and acceptance rather the desire of having, or controlling, or molding - interesting, as I recently read a blog on exactly that subject within a relationship here on Gaia - I have to find her again, and then post the link to that blog. I think it falls into the desire-free co-existence that we could achieve, the state of accepting a being as is, without judgment, control or guilt - in a way as you have discribed Eli, slightly detached from what we usually consider love (with the desire built within). I like the thoughts that your blog brings forth. Thanks Meenakshi!

what a wonderful discussion. i learn so much from you, my friends!

I enjoyed reading this succinct, eloquent core-Hindu manifesto Eli; thanx for sharing.

Regarding the issue of sorting out the issue of “to desire or not to desire”…that's certainly a central issue common to all the wisdom traditions…I was wondering whether you would consider the concept of Viveka, or discernment, to be of relevance here…i'm certainly no expert on Hinduism per se and i know that it sprawls into all sorts of Indian philosophical suburbs…Classical Yoga, Vedanta, Samkhya and the like….does core Hinduism buy into this term?

Viveka is the faculty or process which we use when we distinguish between the “real and unreal”, prakriti and pususha, Atman and Anatman….these distinctions reinforce a dualist metaphysics… which used to be questionned by the nondualist metaphysics of Vedanta and some versions of Indian Tantra…and which are now being debated much more in a postmodern and integral climate where sadhakas are more prone to ride into the heart of desire to penetrate its illusoriness….and I see this debate echoed in the comments of these wonderfully discursive souls here above this post…because we live in a climate where the gravitational pull of desire (vikshepa) is far more intense than within the cultural climate which spawned Hinduism…and may therefore be used as a force which can be transduced into desire for moksha rather than one dualistically fought against…

The force of desire…any form of it… could, then, be transduced or transmuted into the dynamic resting potential of Shukhe Dukhe Samawastha through introspection as well as pure selfless action…this to my mind would avoid the danger of ignoring the possible feeding of the shadow self (…which only really got spoken about with the rise of western developmental psychology in the last 140 years or so)…. through leaving it unattended in the outward-turning of societal caretaking……

Offered with respect and in gratitude and looking forward to yr response and, indeed other rather tasty-sounding blogs to come.

Jon xx

Thank you for your posting Eli. I do know some people who practise Hinduism and have found that the practices merge almost surprisingly comfortably with Christian practice, moreso than, say Islam.

I have not thoroughly explored different phases of evolution across lifetimes, what I refer to in my green-ness as re-incarnation. Certainly I don't have any conscious recollection of a past life although I would have to say my own tacit memory [which I refer to as wisdom] seems to imply I brought some stuff with me from previously! :) So I am inclined to believe that we do experience difference types of learnings which help us to grow individually across ages.

I am only now being introduced to the idea of choice for where our spirit/soul/being will 'reside' from time to time, such as choosing our parents etc. By extension, the idea of desiring a particular type of experience thus choosing that life, would apply here equally. I truly don't have an opinion on this yet. I still have the feeling like it is decided for me what my role is; it really does seem independent of me. My instinct knows what it's doing; it's up to me to follow. :) My mind is clueless much of the time lol

I've long concluded the topic of suffering. It's plain and simple my choice. I can sense and detect the suffering in others; but do I have to bear it? No. I can choose the joyful sensation and create fresh and hopeful new energy if I want to. This is a conscious choice which I do hope more persons will engage over time since it is life creating and enriching as well.

I don't subscribe to restricting feelings and desires whatsoever. This also is self-imposed suffering. We are granted feelings and desires for a reason; it comes with the human package. Our feelings inform of what to attend to … With self respect and self love, we can choose sound actions to take following inspection of our emotions. This, also, is a human alternative that I hope more of us will engage as we go forward.

Thank you so much for this opportunity to reflect on my beliefs in the concept of religion!

Sincere blessings to you.

Friend, Sherri

                                                   …as always ,

                                                         Eli

                                                           is

                                                   incredible !!…..

thanks for the thoughtful post which is very close to my heart…hope to get back again

with my views…

respectfully

-jagadish

Thanx for yr response Eli..highly illuminating.

I note that traditionalists (Coomaraswamy, Parthasawarthy, Aurobindo to name but three) use viveka in this traditionalist sense whereas some popular modern writers with a more tertiary-sourced slant tend to use it in a more psychologically materialist slant in that they use it as conventional discrimination…such as between a spiritual as opposed to bhogic, egocentric motivation….

Personally, I don't like to separate the two, preferring to examine the core of my experience whatever my motivation…it enables me to accept myself in totality…and this acceptance automatically nudges me towards deeper and finer degrees of compassion, forgiveness and tolerance because this very act engenders these qualities within myself as applied to myself…and if i cannot do this then I'm of no real use to others….so i guess that this firmly sets me in the nondual camp.

Warmly, jon x

Thank you for this post, I was pondering questions that seemed to crystalize upon reflection on this post…I do not think the desires are bad, per se.  Instead, I feel that it is to be free from having vested interest in the outcome.  You may desire something, without being consumed by it.  Gradually your soul matures, like a child, understanding that the immediate gratification is not the answer.  To live in a state of openness (and love), without being driven to pursue an outcome.  I think to be able to freely experience the joys of earthly existence (whatever your incarnation!) without becoming ruled by them is part of the experience.

It would make sense that the further you ascend, the less “enjoyable” these things become.  However, I would assume that like all spiritual progress, you must be ready.  I highly doubt that you could abstain from all things pleasurable and get the same lesson as reaching a point in your journey where you simply are.

Wow.  I didn't mean to go on that long…but, here it is.  I may as well keep it up so that others can point out how much more learning I have to go!

Hi Eli, as requested here are my comments in CAPITALS since there is no other way!!

The whole basis of Hinduism, with respect to living forms, is based on the concept of Immortality of the soul. THE USE OF THE TERM 'SOUL' CAUSES CONFUSION. THAT IS WHY I USE THE TERM SOUL, AND NOW MOUL, WHILST REFERING TO THE IMMORTAL ASPECT AS THE SPIRIT OR SPIRIT SELF - GOD-SELF IF YOU LIKE. It is claimed that the soul is in the process of continuous evolution IN VIEW OF WHAT I SAY ABOVE IT IS CORRECT TO SAY THAT THE 'SOUL' IS EVOLVING. I  and it evolves from lower forms of life to higher forms. This obviously is also based on the basis of life-death cycle where re-birth is a certainty, and life forms even more evolved than humans also are presumably possible. IG. I HAVE NOT NEOPTED ANYTHING ABOUT THIS - WHICH IS THE “TRANSMIGRATION OF SOULS”. HOWEVER, MENTING ABOUT IT SUGGESTS THAT IT SEEMS LIKELY.

Coming to humans, it is said that :

“vasamsi jirnani yatha vihaya navani grhnati naro'parani
tatha sarirani vihaya jirnanyanyani samyati navani dehi”  Bhagwad Gita 2:22

“just like a person discards old and tattered clothes to wear new ones, so does this soul discard old and tattered bodies to take a new body”.
IG. I TOO USE THE ANALOGY OF CLOTHING TO EXPLAIN THIS.
Next basis is that of ”sufferings, and how to get rid of the sufferings (MOKSHA)”. It is said that as long as the soul takes any bodily form (say.. human body), it will be bound by the limitations of the sense organs and hence go through sufferings. It is the ultimate goal of all souls to evolve beyond sufferings.

IG. QUITE SO.

Beyond? To where? Where does the soul ultimately go to? 

BY THE WORD “BEYOND” THE WRITER/SPEAKER DOES NOT MEAN TIME/SPACE SO THIS QUESTION DOES NOT ARISE! THE WORD REFERS TO A STATE OF BEING. SPACE AND TIME ARE ASPECTS OF THE UNIVERSE/S OUTSIDE WHICH THEY DO NOT EXIST.

The answer is to ”merge with the universal consciousness, which are named differently, nature, energy, or God… the proper Hindu term being BRAMHAN..” 

IG. THE CORRECT SPELLING IS BRAHMAN AND THERE IS NO QUESTION OF MERGING BECAUSE ONE CANNOT MERGE WITH SOMETHING ONE ALREADY IS.

“Having realized Atman, which is soundless, intangible, formless, undecaying and likewise tasteless, eternal and odorless; having realized That which is without beginning and end, beyond the Great and unchanging-one is freed from the jaws of death.” - Katha Upanishad Part 1, chap 3, verse 15

IG. AGAIN, USE OF THE WORD REALISE IN THIS MANNER IMPLIES 'LEARNING' SOMETHING, BUT THERE IS NOTHING TO 'LEARN': ALL ONE HAS TO DO IS BECOME AWARE OF THE REALITY OF ONE'S IDENTITY - WHICH IS “I AM” OR “I AM IT” OR “I AM GOD”

But how does it evolve to that state?

IG. ONLY THE SOUL [MOUL] EVOLVES - SEE ABOVE.

This question leads to the typical Hindu theory of “cause-effect relationship”. It is said that “what we sow is what we reap”. It is our own deeds (called KARMA) whose results determine which way the soul evolves. As long as the soul has “desires and feelings” which remain “unfulfilled” there will be re-births taken to fulfill them (technically, this is called SAMSKARA ).

IG. THE WORD IS SAMSARA [99.99% SURE] AND THE REST IS TO DO WITH”ATTACHMENT AND NON-ATTACHMENT. [SEARCH MY BOOK & BLOG]

Thus, for example, an unfulfilled “love desire with someone, if strong enough in both persons” will lead to both souls taking another birth in which they will try to meet and fulfill these desires. Same with all desires, money, power, sex, food, etc.

An example is cited in a story where a highly evolved soul in the body of a human once decided to leave his body because he had evolved enough not to take human form any more. As he was just about to die, he saw a wonderful fruit and suddenly had a desire to taste it. But unfortunately, his soul left the body before he could. It is said that he had to take the form of a worm, and eat the fruit before he could get MOKSHA (a typical mythical story to explain the principles).

tHIS SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN TO BE THE REALITY AS IT IT ONLY AN ILLUSTRATION TO CONVEY THE TRUTH IS AN UNDERSTANDABLE FORM. THE REALITY IS THAT IT IS THE LAW OF KARMA THAT DETERMINES EVERYTHING, INCLUDING REBIRTH, AND, THEREFORE, ONE CANNOT CHOOSE!

So what to do? What is the right way to evolve? This is really the point which has drawn the attention of majority of Hindu philosophers. Volumes have been written. The essence being: ” try to behave selflessly, and work without expectations of results. That will cutoff your desires and therefore the cause-effect cycle is broken (they say live like a drop of water on lotus leaf..the drop retains it's shape and does not wet the leaf)”.

IG. THIS IS ALL EXPLAINED SIMPLY AND SUCCINCTLY, AS SOME SAY, IN MY BOOK AND SUBSEQUENT WRITINGS.

Easier said than done. So they tell you of practices… physical and mental practices which will help one to control and restrict one's desires and feelings. The ideal state of being (or living) is described as ” staying in the same mental state in both pleasure and pain” (SHUKHE DUKHKHE SAMAWASTHA).

IG. QUITE SO. THIS IS THE ESSENTIAL BALANCE [HARMONY] WE WRITE ABOUT.

It is claimed that it will take a soul many hundreds of years of continuous practice before it can master this process of evolution and be free from sufferings. Also. one needs an efficient guide (GURU) who will help the person in this process.

IG. MANY THOUSANDS OF YEARS! HOWEVER, FACT #1. HOW MANY THOUSANDS OF YEARS HAVE WE ALREADY PUT IN? FACT #2. IN THIS REGARD TIME DOES NOT EXIST SO THE 'LENGTH OF TIME' IS ONLY AN ILLUSION! FACT # 3. ONLY 'PART' OF THE MOUL INCARNATES AT ONE TIME SO APPEAREANCES ARE DECEPTIVE; THE ENTITY MAY HAVE OTHER NEGATIVE OR POSITIVE CHARACTERSITICS NOT MANIFEST IN A PARTICULAR LIFETIME [SEARCH THE BOOK FOR THE WORD “SHEET” OR “HANKERCHIEF” FOR A FULL EXPLANATION].

ON THE SUBJECT OF THE NECESSITY OF A GURU IT SEEMS THAT THIS IS A HINDU TRADITION MORE THAN A NECESSITY. IN FACT, GURUS COULD BE A HINDRANCE! THE BUDDHA ESCHEWED GURUS AND DID HIS OWN THING - AS MANY MYSTICS HAVE DONE AND DO!

Hi Eli,
Thank yo for the information on “samskara”. It certainly sounds like a Pali or Sankrit derivative but I must confess that I have never heard of it - not that that means anything!!
All I can do is point to a reference to the meanings of Pali and Sanskrit words where there is also a secondary reference to vetta plus more. This is the reference for anyone interested [CLICK] but I would appreciate any further information you have on “samaskara”.
I am now off to check out the Hindu data and will revert if I come across anything worthwhile.
:-)

Yes, they use the word “samskara” and the meaning is as below:

Samskāra

Inborn nature or predisposition; Latent impression of the action; The tendencies inherited from previous births.

So, “samskara” is Sanskrit and it is possible, therefore, that “samsara” derives from the Pali. However, this does not change things as, considering the detailed descriptions, they both mean the same thing.

NB. My definition of the soul is ' the sum total of the experiences [of the Spirit] over many lifetimes'. (See my blog)

To add to my comment above on the subject of GURUS:
The word 'guru' means teacher and teachers come in many forms - life, human, book et al. To impel us on the path to enlightenment and the cessasion of samsara information from external sources like these is a help and, therefore, a guru is a help provided that he or she is no more than a source of information freely given.
I have heard it said of gurus that they tell their 'pupils' that enlightenment can only be attained through them. This, of course, is untrue.

Yes, Eli, they can help in this way. Here is a link to a blog of mine illustrating the same thing:
CLICK